He had been at most 21 and perhaps younger than just that when their daughter Joanna was given birth to. She may had been new earliest of all of the students the guy fathered by their individuals mistresses.

John was born in December 1167

1187 Summer - John from inside the France when Chateauroux had been besieged 1187 June 23 - truce 1188 The month of january. 29 - Henry returns in order to England, maybe with John in pull 1188 Summer - Henry directs John back into , crosses off 1189 Summer a dozen - John from the Ce Mans whenever disarmed by Henry's purchase, following John fled or are provided out for coverage 1189 July six - Henry We dies inside the France 1189 Aug. several - Richard will bring John back once again to The united kingdomt which have him 1189 Aug. 30 - John hitched so you can Isabelle off Gloucester within Marlebridge 1189 Sep. step 3 - Richard crowned at the Westminster Abbey 1189 October. - Richard delivers John to the Wales to subdue the fresh edgy Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned so you can and you can pressed into the oath to not ever set base on England for a few years 1190 Summer - Richard continues on crusade [John breaks their oath] For our aim, it’s thought that 1st months, and the very likely going back to Joanna to possess come developed, 's the 1187-nine several months. 1187 - John spends around the year in France 1188 - John have returned to England during the January, but from the june is sent to France, in which the guy seems to have remained 1189 - John appears to be during the France January - August, going back to The united kingdomt inside the August when preparing to have his relationships on the 29 Aug. If John produced no further unrecorded productivity so you're able to The united kingdomt, it seems that the guy invested about 80% out-of his time regarding January 1187 until their marriage, in France . He had been at some point because of the State from Mortain, during the (in advance of Richard's coronation).

These advice, given the several months therefore the fact that Joanna try introduced to help you The united kingdomt out-of France when you look at the 1203 getting their particular marriage to help you Llywelyn, lends credence into the idea that Joanna and her mother have been away from French/Norman resource.

Given in addition to John's really-recognized philandering during this time period, indeed there seems to be of numerous applicants into part out of mommy out of Joanna!

My personal early in the day article provided every piece of information one to Paget revealed that they was Clemence de Dauntsey, which married Nicholas de- Verdun. We considered that this was the newest Nicholas and you will Clementia in order to just who Henry 111 offered the newest child custody from Susanna (due to the fact a good hostage) in 1228. Once a separate enough time lookup not, I am able to discover zero shade out-of a beneficial Clemence de- Dauntsey when you look at the brand new facts. Used to do come across yet not, this new opinion of just one genealogist just who obviously stated it as…’ I believe that people (the genealogists) have established that there is actually no like people because the Clemence de Dauntsey. One identification of spouse out of Nicholas de Verdun is actually a good error from the Paget!’

I am ready to believe that end, once the after that data of information of your 2nd Clemence turned-out so much more productive.

Normandy

Clemence le Boteler was created on 1175 within the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire. Her father try Philip le Boteler (produced circa 1150).

Clemence ce Boteler partnered Nicholas de Verdun into the 1202 (his second wife immediately after his marriage so you can Joan Fitz Piers. Mention, this marriage isn’t confirmed) during the Alton, Staffordshire plus they got one youngster, Rohese de- Verdun who had been produced inside 1203 or 1205 (passed away. Feb 1247).

If, in fact, Joanna is the result of good liaison ranging from John and you may Clemence ce Boteler (who would had been old up to fourteen-fifteen at the time), it can have been quite difficult towards the Ce Boteler family unit members to AmoLatina datingside gjennomgang get a suitable partner for Clemence. Actually certain ten years violation prior to a good ily?) with a trusting English nobleman and you may assets holder, Nicholas de- Verdun. Making away for the moment the possibility that Nicholas had fallen crazy about the latest 27 yr old Clemence and you may planned to marry their unique, it can have been very important to John to add Clemence with some property out of her own in order for she turned a very attractive honor to possess their own future husband.